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Round surface not round

Peter
(@peter)
Reputable Member

Hello,

What settings should I change in order to improve round parts, which they aren't perfectly round but it's like lines?

Also, the finish is too rough.

Please help.

Thank you in advance.

Pump Adapter

 

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 30/03/2021 11:37 pm
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Hi Peter!

Just for curiosity, what is your model for? Is it for a water pump?...

Regarding the lack of roundness of your model (the 12 or 16 sides polygon towards the top), I believe it is due to the export process. Is that a model you personally designed or you downloaded it? Would you share the STL model? In order to check the shape and parameters. Which slicer are you using? This will also help me to guide through the configuration.

Despite the first question, about the details of the print I could suggest you some adjustments. But first, some questions that will help to determine which is the cause: 

- What is the Hot End/Bed Temperature?

- According to the previous item, what material are you using? Is it PLA, ABS, PETG, etc.

- What cooling speed did you set up? This setting is different, depending on the material you are using.

- What printing speed did you choose?

- Did you verify the bed level? 

Now, the suggestions:

- Layer adhesion: I can see some spots where the material doesn't stick very well between layers, especially on the vertical conic shape. In that case, you could adjust the nozzle temperature and the cooling speed. There are more parameters you could adjust, but let's start with these two.

- Taking a closer look to the horizontal surfaces, I can see there is too much material extrusion. In this case, I would recommend you reduce the Flow Rate.

- Also, I could say the nozzle is a little off from the bed.

But, before continuing, could you send me the response to the questions above? So I can narrow a little bit more the solution.

Look forward to your response...

Kind regards,

Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/03/2021 7:43 pm
Peter
(@peter)
Reputable Member

Hi Pablo,

Thanks for your prompt answer.

The model is for a water pump adaptor, which I designed myself. Please see attached.

Regarding the slicer, I'm using the one that came with the printer, which is Afinia H+1.

Unfortunately, most of the parameters are preset, so I don't have too much freedom to control them.

One of the parameters I can't control is the temperature of the bed and the nozzle. I think is about 150C.

The material is PLA and the brand is "Hatchbox", and I never got any issues with it.

The bed was calibrated just before the printing.

I personally suspect the speed, but again, I can't control it, unless perhaps I should contact the manufacturer for helping with parameters. I really want to switch the slicer with some more manipulative like Cura for instance, but I'm not sure if I can do that...

Please review the file and let me know your thoughts.

Also, I would be curious if you can try to print the pump and see the results.

Thank you Pablo.

 

Best,

Peter

 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 01/04/2021 12:43 am
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Hi Peter!

It's good to hear from you! We are here to help and guide you with your concerns and experiences.

Let’s start with the model. When I opened it with Cura, I had to scale it 10 times in order to have an “real” measure, ending up with this maximum lengths (approximately):

  • X: 33 mm
  • Y: 35 mm
  • Z: 27,5 mm

Still, the final measures will depend on the real ones. I will show with a screen capture the maximum dimensions when I scale it:

Pump STL Scale

When I looked at the model, I confirmed my first suspicion: the printing copied the polygon pattern from the conical part; therefore, the printer replied to the exact model you placed. I will show you the screen capture from the model placed in Cura, can you notice that pattern?:

Pump STL Detail

I would recommend you to check if there is any warranty topic that implies the use of another slicer. But, if there is no problem with that, I encourage you to try using other slicing programs, such as Cura or Simplify3D; because you will be able to adjust many parameters. For example, Cura has more than 400 parameters to modify in the expert mode; but, you can start with the basic ones and add more once you start to feel more confident and acquire experience.

So, if the temperature is at 150°C (I believe is the Nozzle), that value is too low, especially using PLA. Most PLA suppliers recommend heating the Nozzle around 200°C.

Since you share the STL, I will give it a shoot with my printer and I will send you back the GCODE file, so you can do it in yours, and later on we can compare both results. Keep in mind, that your material will vary from mine, even though we will be using PLA.

Could you send me some measures from the model? So I can scale it close to the real one.

Just let me know how it goes…

Kind regards,

 Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/04/2021 4:46 am
Peter
(@peter)
Reputable Member

Hi Pablo,

Thank you for your detailed answer. Greatly appreciate it.

Please give me a few days, and I'll get back to you.

 

Happy Easter!

 

Best,

Peter

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 02/04/2021 1:17 am
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Hi Peter!

Thank you for your reply...

I´ll be here. If you have any further questions, please let me know.

Happy Easter too!

Regards,

Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/04/2021 12:53 pm
Peter
(@peter)
Reputable Member

Hi Pablo,

The actual dimensions of the part are 84 x 93 x 71mm (high), but I scaled it to 63 x 60 x 50 (H).

Also, I changed the temperature of the nozzle to 200°C and the finish was improved.

However, I can't say the same for the roundness.

It still is not round but more like polyhedron, which is very disappointing.

Then, I contacted the tech support of the manufacturer and provided photos.

Waiting for response.

Regarding the slicer, I can not use another one, so I have to use the one that came with the printer.

 

Yesterday I tried to print a simple part, a cylinder with dimensions 60mm x 10mm (attached).

Needless to say that I am not happy of the results.

Can you please do me a favor?

Can you try to print the same part or even different dimensions but cylinder, and to show me the results.

By the way, what kind of 3D printer do you have?

Thank you Pablo.

You help is greatly appreciated.

 

Best,

Peter.

Cyl.60x10

 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 06/04/2021 4:13 pm
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Hi Peter!

I am glad you were able to improve your print!

Regarding the model itself, what program do you use for design? Because the roundness you are writing about has to do with the export method characteristics. For example, in the pump spare part, you can notice that the center hole and the ones for the bolt are circular; but, the conical part is a polygon. You can notice that when looking at the Cura screen shot I sent you.

In the cilinder you printed, the same thing happened. Could you send me that file too (both .stl and .obj)? So I can take a look at it. Taking a closer look, I can see it is a perfect polygon. If you print it rotated 90°, you will come up with the same result. So, there is nothing wrong with the printer; because the model is not a cylinder (like the pump spare part).

You should be happy with the outcome, you have improved your print! By only changing the temperature...

Regarding the slicer, you can’t use another one due to warranty or there is something else? Because you could improve the print a little bit more by adjusting some other settings.

Later on I will send you a picture with my print of the pump spare part…

Regards,

Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/04/2021 9:54 pm
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Sorry, I forgot to mention I have 2 Ender 3 Pro printers.

Regard,

Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/04/2021 10:19 pm
Peter
(@peter)
Reputable Member

Hi Pablo,

I contacted the tech support for my printer.

The person told me that that is no printer that can print a perfect round, so EVERY printer prints small triangles.

From your experience, is this true, and how can you manipulate the design?

He gave me another model, and even though is much better finish, you can notice some vertical lines outside and inside (see photo).

Also, I brought up the question for using different slicer, and he said "It's your printer, you can do whatever you want. If you break something, we can provide you with spare parts". Oh, that's fantastic...

Do you have any printed parts that are round?

If so, how do they look?

Regarding the model file (.stl), I already sent it to you. That's all I have.

Thanks again for sharing your experience Pablo.

 

Best,

Peter

IMG 2805

 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 06/04/2021 10:38 pm
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Hi Peter!

I will disagree with the person you contacted, printers can do circular shapes. When he/she refers to small triangles, is talking about the mesh created from exporting an .obj file into .stl; the last file extension is the one you upload on the slicer. So, if the original model has circumferences, the .gcode (therefore the printer) wil reply to it; but, if the model has a polygon shape, it will reply to that geometric figure. The higher amount of meshes, the higher resolution of the model.

The case of your first model is related to that. I printed myself, having the same results you had. I attached a picture of the print. Also, I attached several models I designed and printed. As you can see, all prints are round. Again, this has to do with the model. Also, attached you will find an .stl file, which is one of the models shown in the pictures, so you can print it and compare with mine.

First, this is from the model I printed (with the slicer screenshots):

Pump System Mount Pablo
Printing 3
Printing 2
Printing 1

The following pictures are the models I designed:

Round 6
Round 5
Round 4
Round 2
Round 1

The following is the .stl file of the last picture (the bottom part), which has a thread:

Regarding the slicer, it is great news! I recommend you start using Cura or Simplify3D. Until you get more confident, just adjust the basic setting such as: infill, layer quality, wall thickness, support configuration, bed and nozzle temperatures and cooling. 

Please, keep me updated with your progress…

If you have any further questions, do not hesitate to ask me...

Kind regards,

Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2021 1:31 pm
Peter
(@peter)
Reputable Member

Hi Pablo,

Thanks again for your support and for sharing your experience.

I'm printing your part right now and I'll let you know the results tomorrow since it will take me 3hrs. to print.

Would you be able to send me the mating part or similar but with the same thread size (if it's not a problem)?

I want to check how the threads work.

Regarding the model, you are saying that all depends on the model, correct?

That being said, the geometric forms (triangles) are specified with the design of the part and nothing to do with the slicer or the printer itself? Correct?

I definitely want to try different slicer, but still have to learn what to expect at the end.

I'll keep you posted on the progress.

Thank you.

 

Best,

Peter.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 08/04/2021 12:50 am
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Hi Peter!

You are welcome, we are here to help you improve your prints…

I am looking forward to seeing your results!

If you have the chance, would you send me a screenshot with the slicer´s settings? So I can compare with mine also.

Attached you will find the .stl file of the bigge cylinder. I recommend you to scale it at 98% in order to have a perfect match between both parts. Also, if you are not interested in printing the whole model, just print up to a few mm past the thread.

Regarding both questions, what you see in the slicer is what you get from the design program. When exporting a .obj file to an .stl file, the software will create a mesh (a set of many triangles one next to the other). 

Regarding the slicer, I recommend you start with Cura or Simplify3D, there are many more; but these ones are the most popular. If you decide to choose the first one, start with the basic print settings. Once you get more experience and curiosity, there are almost 400 settings that you could play with.

Please, let me know how it goes…

Kind regards,

Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/04/2021 6:22 pm
Peter
(@peter)
Reputable Member

Hi Pablo,

Attached you'll see the settings of the slicer (don't be too impressed) and the part you gave me.

I'll try to print the other part as well and let you know the results.

Based on the photo, what do you think for the printed part?

Does it look the same in terms of the finish?

Do you think if I change the slicer (say with Cura), the overall quality will be improved drastically? 

Thank you.

 

Best,

Peter

IMG 2840

 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 09/04/2021 12:10 am
Pablo
(@placherre)
Member Moderator

Hi Peter!

Thank you for sharing the result! It looks good, but you could adjust some things in order to improve. When taking the first steps, you might find some disappointments; but after some practice you will notice the improvements.

Looking at the screenshot of your slicer, I can see that you aren’t be able to adjust some other settings that will let you improve your print finishing. I would recommend you to change the “Extrusion Width” setting, from 0,5mm to 0,4mm. Because most nozzles have a 0.4mm diameter; anyways, check your (it could be 0.6mm also). 

Once you get more in depth with the slicer and gain more experience, you will be able to improve your printing. Also, more complex models requires the adjust of more settings.

Good printing....

Regards,

Pablo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/04/2021 1:59 pm
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